Please post your responses here

Please post your responses here

by Mihir Kanade -
Number of replies: 15

Let's start the discussion here

In reply to Mihir Kanade

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by Deleted user -

I must say that this particular example from the BBC is very revealing for many reasons:

It puts the reader in a dilemma over whether it is best to protect IPRs or whether to give in, in favour malnourished children. At this person, one can only feel helpless to grasp how Western society has managed to undermine its humanity, by degrading the importance of human life, in its (ambitious) process of evolution and self-actualization. During the podcast, the first thing that attracted my attention was how IPRs are just another example of the imposition of Western values (and sometimes, greed; e.g. the unscrupulous appropriation of traditional knowledge and the exploitation of it, even in the land were it was nurtured for centuries; Arewa (2006) advocates a flexible framework to provide a more balanced distribution of resources in this context) upon other cultures and of its consequences (e.g. the Ecuadorian tribe in the podcast). For this reason, it is very hard to have a clear-cut middle point, which Siew Kuan (2009) seeks throughout his paper, concluding that despite the “complex milieu of competing legal, political, economic and social interests”, it is essential to strike upon an “effective balance between the public interest and the legitimate private interest of patent holders”.

In my view, this balance should in certain cases be more biased towards the defense of RtD, so that products such as the Plumpy’nut are more “flexible” in terms of its patent and possible compensation. Maybe this sounds a bit scandalous and idealistic for everyone, but here it goes: one could compare this to a principle of “partial-expropriation”, whereby the State would adequately compensate that company in order to not discourage future innovation, in the name of humanity. The extent of “adequate compensation” is as legal as moral a conundrum can be… The question always crops up again: what is more important, life itself or a right of exploitation (an intellechi, as Joaquín would say) created by Westerners? This is the real issue.

The Doha’s Declaration, vis-à-vis of the soulagement of the TRIP conditions, is proof that the international community is more aware of the ever-increasing moral dilemma. Article 5 c) of the Declaration mentions “national emergencies, other circumstances of extreme urgency” as a way that States, when considered appropriate, may grant Compulsory Licenses, in order to address these issues. The very recent Novartis Case is also a major precedent which might engage into new possible resolutions in favour of de-restricting patents, as well as raising awareness of how international organizations such as WTO must choose between life or the actual self-imposed paradigm of an economic-utilitarian based society.

In reply to Mihir Kanade

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by Mihir Kanade -

Great post Cecilio! You are absolutely right, this article does bring out the moral conundrums involved in the debate on IPRs vs. human rights. But, just for some sadistic pleasure to complicate the moral problem even further, let me point out that IPR itself is a human right! So, consider Art. 15 of the ICESCR:

"The States parties to the present Covenant recognize the right of everyone [...] To benefit from the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author."

Therefore, IPR is considered to be a human right itself. Any dilution of that will be a dilution of human rights of the innovators :) How then do we solve the problems such as Plumpy'Nut? I am eager to read the opinions of others as well. Should patents be granted for such 'humanitarian' products or not?

In reply to Mihir Kanade

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by Deleted user -

I didn't think that to break any patent will stop the hunger but I was wrong. And i thought that maybe, only maybe, the drama of hunger was more complex, I thought that maybe the problem was  political. I thought that this drama was created by politicians and I thought about politics.  Nevertheless I was  wrong, and for sure that the problems of this world are very simple: Private corporations and patents. Lets expropiate the  private corporations (Hugo Chavez, sic transit, was an expert in developing through the expropiation mechanism), let's use this magic product and we will stop the hunger in Africa.

In reply to Mihir Kanade

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by Deleted user -

The obvious initial answer to that question is no. No, this miraculous food product should not be protected by a commercial patent when lifting this restriction could save millions of lives. The issue is however, far more complex. 

Life should not and cannot be subservient to economic or financial interests. I understand there is a need to reward innovation and to maintain the incentive to innovate in the field of R&D. I get that the high prices are meant cover the R&D investment and to fund further research and so on. That said, the position of both parties in the Plumpy`Nut case is rather interesting in that they both agree that Plumpy`Nut is a miracle product that can save lives and that the other party has financial interest at stake by either keeping the patent description as broad as possible (Nutriset) or removing it (MamaCares). Nutriset claims that the patent is not universal and that is has many African partners that develop the RUTF as well and that its long term goal is to build African capacity and encourage African owned business, hence Plumpy`Nut is meant not only as a food product but also as a development tool for Africa and that removing the patent and allowing the US to produce similar peanut-based RUTF would hinder African producers to benefit American peanut producers and their interests based on USAID`s declaration that most (almost 80%) of its aid is based on granting American firms grants and contracts. 

Interestingly, per its Usage Agreement (available on its website), Nutriset allows NGOs and other entities to manufacture, produce and distribute this product through a Patent Usage Agreement. Even though the whole "Plumpy`Nut as a tool for development" sounds like nice rhetoric to me and there are of course financial interest behind the broad patent description, I am glad that at least some sort of compromise was reached within Nutriset and that IT IS possible for malnourished populations elsewhere to benefit from Plumpy`Nut. 

 I believe there should be more flexibility regarding patents, but that this flexibility must result from a case by case analysis process. I like Cecilio`s idea of a middle ground whereby the company received economic compensation as an incentive to innovation...Idealistic? Maybe, but we are talking about human lives here...lives being lost at an alarming rate too! This article and Plumpy`Nut deal with starvation and malnourishment but what about disease? A middle ground between altruism and financial gain has to be found. 

*I found the readings to be very interesting, I had not considered how emerging global standards were built on hierarchical constructions of knowledge and how this relates to the TRIPS Agreement. In itself, the Arewa reading was fascinating. 

In reply to Mihir Kanade

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by Mihir Kanade -

Thanks Francisco and Andrea for your responses. As you guys have pointed out, like Cecilio, in a predominantly profit-based capitalist model of global governance, the challenge is always how to strike a balance between competing interests. We know that States ratify commitments under international treaties such as the TRIPS Agreement, that limit their 'policy space' to deal with adverse imapcts of globalization. For instance, we know that the primary responsibility to ensure access to medicines and theureupatic products like Plumpy'Nut, lie on States under the right to health and the right to life. Yet, patenting laws under TRIPS Agreement limit the policy space of States to do exactly that - access to necessary drugs. (Policy Space refers to the ability of States to make appropriate policies and laws that it needs to fulfill its human rights, social, environmental or other obligations). As a result, Francisco's pessimism is very well-founded - money talks, baby!

The need therefore, is to make sure that there is a balance between two competing interests - need for incentivising innovation on the one hand and access to affordable medicines on the other. (Plumpy'Nut is not strictly a medicine, but the point is the same). Andrea's point regarding patent usage agreements between Nutriset and local NGOs was great. Thanks for doing that research Andrea and sharing it with us. This could be a good option, but again, like you pointed out, most companies would not do this as well.

I have several comments to make on this issue, but I would like to hear from others as well on their thoughts. Also, I would like to revert to Art. 15(3) mentioned in my previous post that states IPR is a human right as well. So what do we do when one human right (benefiting from innovation) competes with other human rights such as the right to health and life?

Also, we know that innovators have right to benefit from their innovation, but is there also any right on other human beings to benefit from that scientific innovation? Think about this last question, in particular, because if other human beings do have such a right, that gives teeth to legal arguments that a balance must be struck. Our attempt is to move beyond moral arguments to legal ones. What do you guys think?

In reply to Mihir Kanade

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by Deleted user -

For the sake of argument, I don't want to focus directly on the Plumpynut case because it is a very unique case. The issue I am addressing more and I think it is what this discussion was actually meant to be about is whether or not it is ok to violate IPR's in order to protect human rights in regards to a revolutionary product.

 

The question of whether patents should be granted or not when a product is considered revolutionary presents a very difficult situation. On one hand, removing the patent has the potential to protect human rights, but on the other hand doing so is also violating a human right and potentially de incentiveizing the entire “development industry”. The problem I have with this question is that it polarizes the debate and forces us to choose whose human rights we think is ok to violate. We have to remember that there is already a legal instrument in place that removes patents even though it has only been used once. I think there exist ways where both the developing nations’ citizens’ human rights are protected as well as the IPR’s of the drug companies. We must look at the interests of each party involved in these types of cases and figure out ways to preserve each groups human rights without violation:

  1. The suffering peoples want a product that 'protects their human rights' (summarized)
  2. The company that has the patent to that product wants their IPR protected as well as to profit from their investment.
  3. The development industry needs to fulfill its promises of financial incentives to companies if it wants to continue to exist.

How can we find a way for all of these interests to go in the same direction?

One possible solution; If a company wants to produce this ‘revolutionary’ product, they must pay an up front fee to the patent holder for rights to produce a certain amount of this product, the patent holder then determines the price the new company is able to sell it for, and then they must pay interest on this product over a period of X years to the original patent holder.  This way the original patent holder is actually making more money than if they were able to produce much more themselves and another company is able to help protect the human rights of populations.  And at the same time the development industry able to incentivize revolutionary breakthrough’s even more because licensing a patent out would actually create more profit. 

What do you guys think of this possible solution?  

In reply to Deleted user

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by Deleted user -

 

About your possible solution, Alex. I do agree, and with your permission I would like to add some considerations.

In a country which is starving, probably there is not enough private industry to produce that product. Also, if there is any private enterprise able to produce it I think it has not enough money to pay any patent. And also, if there is enough money to pay the patent the final consumer has no money to pay any product, so there is no profit for that producer so, without profit, that enterprise can not afford to produce the product because with no money it is not possible neither to pay the electricity.

If we think about public enterprise. It will be directed by politicians (or “friends” named by the politicians), politicians who live quite well in front of an starving people. Do you think that they have any interest to create a public enterprise which will never have any profit to feed people they do not care?

About the states. If that magic product is going to save Africa from starving, why the states do not pay the patent? Because there are states in Africa whose leaders live with luxuries paid by public money, and their states receive money from Western countries for development. And there are states who give a lot of developing aid which does not reach its purposes; they could pay the patent instead of wasting developing aid.

A key point is that the final consumer has no money, and the states do not want to pay a cent for this.

I would prefer to violate first the secret bank accounts of many state leaders and IIOO leaders in tax heavens than to violate IPRs.

Because the scheme of breaking the patent, over the terrain, could be the following if before we do not fight the corruption:

You, Alex, you are the politician who allows me to break the patent and produce the magic product for the half of the money and no I+D cost. And because you allowed me to break the patent and you only allowed me to produce the product, I will put the 30% of my profit in one of your secret bank accounts in a tax heaven. Then I will make another similar business with the developing state. As real as life. This is corruption. This is the real life.

 

In reply to Deleted user

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by Deleted user -

I don't think I made it clear, but what I meant in the proposed soution was not a legal tool, but rather agreements that are come to between drug companies.  Often what happens with these products produced by pharmaceutical companies is that the products are sold to NGO's or to governments, not direclty to individuals.  The orginal patent holder determining the price for the products to be sold was so that consumers of the product would not be gouged.  I understand what I wrote is very subjective and patent licensing probably already exists but I should have made clearer that this would have to be voluntary by all parties and not forced by a legal entity because that legal intervention framework already exists.  

 

But you do raise up a very good point;  Is it ok to enable corruption if it means that the Human Rights of the individuals and the IPR's could be upheld?  Or is the enabling of corruption itself violating the individuals RtD?

more simply put;

Are we allowed to prioritize upholding certain huuman rights (right to life) if it means we must enable the violation of the same individuals other rights?(right to transparent and uncorrupt government)

In reply to Mihir Kanade

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by Deleted user -

It is very important to separate “moral” and “law” because they are very different things: The moral dimension and the legal dimension.

In the moral dimension, close to ideals, wishes, hopes, desires… there are no obligations, there are not crimes, there are no consequences, there is nobody who will judge this moral dimension –different issue are the religions, I do not want to offend-, nobody will punish. In this dimension we all agree: Everybody should enjoy development (“Right to Development”), everybody should enjoy innovation, everybody should enjoy richness, etc… These are hopes and wishes that we do all share. Of course we all want a better world: Everybody enjoying development, richness, innovation. The question is how we can make everybody to enjoy development, richness, innovation, etc… Another question is when we will make everybody to enjoy development, richness, innovation, etc… “How” and “when”are Politics, not Law. Through the Law we make real the Politics. Law is a tool of Politics.

Another issue is the legal dimension. A law must follow some principles, if not it is not “law”. A law has many aspects which we can not find in the moral dimension; for example, the law has to be compulsory, there are actions which go against the law which are labeled as “crimes”, there are consequences (punishment) if the law is broken. There are authorities who decide if the law was broken or not and give punishment.

From my point of view there is a great corruption, everywhere. If we do not fight against the corruption no moral idea will work. With corruption no politics will work. With corruption we can expropriate all the medicines of the world –facing its subsequent consequences- but people will continue dying because they will not have the medicines we have expropriated for them. With corruption we will never reach any balance (Justice is a kind of balance) neither any solution. For this reason, and from of my experience, I am very focused on the corruption.

The way of legislate under the scheme of “if there is a problem We ban the problem” is very idealistic. Let’s ban all the problems, let’s create more and more situations we all desire –like a right to enjoy innovation- and everybody will enjoy development and innovation and everybody will enjoy a better life. I wish it, I do really wish it, nevertheless I offer to you my dudes about the success  of this method. Because innovation or development are a consequence of a group of factors from different nature and consequence of an extremely slow process.  It is difficult –and very expensive- to accelerate three hundred years in two legislative periods.

Let’s break the patents, expropriate, “re-study” the private property under its social function, judge and punish the private corporations, let’s ban and eliminate the Western values of avarice, let’s give the medicines to the states whose population need them. That is the application of politics, a certain politics. But if there is corruption, and there is corruption, I do not think that after the application of this politics people who need these medicines will enjoy nothing.  Because, am I the only one who think that corruption is the principle reason of under developing?

We could think about the management of the developing aid, about the money which enters in developing states, we could think about the origin of the fortunes and luxuries of the managers of such states, we could focus on the fortunes of the leaders of big international Organizations  and its families (something about “oil for food” comes to my mind), etc… It is only one idea, I do not want to offend anybody.

I would like to share one of my experiences in a developing country: Once I was in a developing country which receives important developing aid from Spain, and in the same day I was in front of three key points to have reflection apart from the politically correct dictatorship; I was in front of a building which was horrible, dirty, and very ruined. I was in front a beautiful building, new, clean. And I was in front of some mansions, palaces, private residences. The ruined building was the public hospital which needs medicines it cannot pay. The new and beautifull building was one of the private parking buildings for the collection of luxury cars of one of the responsible persons of such state, and the mansions and palaces were the private residences of high civil servants.

Also I liked very much the comments of Alex. Dear Alex: You have a wonderful aptitude and intelligence to study Law and Political Sciences.

And sorry because my comment is too much long, it breaks the instruction of not being too long for respect to the colleagues. Excuse me.

Ah! One last comment: From my point of view it is not a question of  “balance of interests”, it is question of prosecution and punishment, as fast as possible.

In reply to Mihir Kanade

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by Mihir Kanade -

Alex and Francisco, you both raise excellent points and to be quite frank, both of you are right. Alex is right that a balance must be struck between the three competing interests he mentioned. And Francisco is absolutely right that whatever be the laws, they can work only if corruption does not erode them. A lot of NGOs have started looking at ways to bypass the states in their work, precisely because of corruption problems.

Alex mentioned one such way to bypass corruption (although not explicitly) and that is by issuing patent usage agreements to companies that want to copy those products and sell them. This is a voluntary agreement between the company and others, something on the lines of what Nutriset is now doings, As Andrea had pointed out. This is a good solution if the compensation is not prohibitory. For instance, if Company X sells a drug at USD 5 per tablet, it may actually benefit by allowing Company Y to produce the drug and sell it if Company Y agrees to pay USD 5 to Company X as compensation. The question there is why would Company Y agree to do such a thing if it has to pay all of USD 5 to Company X? What will it earn? The only way this can work is if Company X says, look here, our cost of production is USD 3. We sell it at USD 5 and make a profit of USD 2. We will allow Company Y to copy our drug and sell it at USD 5, provided we recieve USD 2 out of it. That way, we recieve the profit we would otherwise have, without even producing and selling the drug. Company Y may also benefit by a profit of USD 1, if it can produce the drug at USD 2 and pay Company X USD 2 as compensation.

This very seldom happens though, because Company X wants to keep out every other competitor, and does not want to share patented technology. When voluntary licenses like these don't work, compulsory licenses come in and these must be done at the behest of the State. But again, we face roadblocks here either because of all the problems we discussed in the presentation, or because someone in the government sees this as an opportunity of filling up their pocket,s as Francisco mentioned.

Now from the perspective of the real people in need of those medicines or hunger relief products, their access to the things they need gets mired up in these legal technicalities. It is important for us to get to the bottom of this and understand the normative standing of their claims. Of course, I will follow up with other aspects later, once we have more posts, but for now, I again want to revert to my previous question and ask you all the following:

We know that innovators have human right to benefit from their own scientific inventions. Do other human beings have a similar human right to benefit from scientific progress?

In reply to Mihir Kanade

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by Deleted user -

Yes, other human beings have right to benefit from scientific progress. But who is going to pay that? Innovators have the right to benefit from their research, from their investment on innovation.And all the people we have the rights of the Universal Declaration of human Rights. The more we go towards the Human Rights the more we will be closer to enjoy the scientific progress as consequence of the realization of the human rights which are in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. But the scientific progress costs money, constant money. And that money has to come from some source. So maybe we need to face an economic debate. And for this economic debate I do think that the person who is better prepared is Cecilio because of his knowledge about the Economic Science.

From my point of view, if the final consumer can not pay it we have the option to understand the private propierty under the vision of its social use and distribute such innovation. And who will assume its cost? This is the key point: Who can assume its cost? I think we have three options: a) The cost can be assumed by its producing industry. b) The cost can be assumed by the recipient state. c) The cost can be assumed by “other entities”.

Also, today chatting about this problem with somebody who works in the pharmaceutical industry, he told me about Aurobindo, an Indian pharmaceutical enterprise with which many pharmaceutical enterprises have problems with the patents. Many enterprises think that this enterprise violated their patents under kind of  “protection” from the Indian state, earning big profit and, these people told me, without helping too much poor people in India. If this was true, we should be facing another corruption in relationship with breking patents under the protection of states and without any profit for the people who really need the medicines.

If we decide to allow to violate patents, or we obligate enterprises to subscribe agreements for allowing to use their patents by third enterprises we should have to watch carefully that the people who really need the medicines finally get those medicines and to avoid and prosecute our worst and main enemy: the corruption. 

In reply to Deleted user

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by Deleted user -

I think protecting the right if having your revolutionary product protected is a core issue. But on the other hand this right is affecting negatively a more important right which is the right to life. I can say it’s more important but legally speaking there is no priorities here. Either you protect the patent and risk all the lives that suffer from hunger, or you violate a clear right of protecting your product. It is really confusing legal wise, thought at the moral side its crystal clear that that saving the world from hunger is the most important issue and not only those companies should participate in finding a solution, but the whole world as well. We are talking about agreements between companies, but what if the companies didn’t agree? This is not a solid solution in my opinion because it relys on the decision of the companies not on the good of the people.

In reply to Mihir Kanade

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by Deleted user -

In order to try to give an answer to professor's question, I would like to point out some relevant issues (some of them have been already rised up in previous posts, directly or indirectly):

1) Patents are designed to encourage innovation by granting inventors long-term monopolies on new products. In recent years, however, several innovators in high-tech sectors have complained that the large volume of vague patents has become a major barrier to innovation. When start-ups attempt to unveil a new product, they risk violating a broad, obscure patent (in 1983 in the United States, 59,715 patents were issued; by 2003, 189,597 patents were issued; and in 2010, 244,341 new patents were approved!) [source: Boldrin and K. Levine, http://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1257/jep.27.1.3]

2) A private, profit-driven corporation is very unlikely to invest in some prospective innovation if there is a limited perspective of making money out of it. Therefore, only potencially profitable field are explored by private corporations' R+D departments, and this does not necessarily meet human healthcare or environmental interests.

3) Patents are needed because we assume that private corporations have de facto the monopoly of the R+D. The general trend of leaving all R+D to private sector is a result of the current neoliberal capitalism. Surely it produces some benefits and innovations. Nevertheless, if the R+D was promoted and supported by public capitals (states, IIOO, etc.), therefore the results of research and scientific progress could be spread freely and used in favor of all human community. The principle is: the R+D is payed by states, that is, by all citizens through taxes; therefore, everybody has the right to enjoy the results of scientific progress. For example, we could strengthen the World Health Organization's R+D efforts; why not?

4) Even though we assme that patents are necessary (or even useful) in contemporary world, we should apply a criteria of PROPORTIONALITY in the application of IPR. This would help not to generate (or at least to reduce) conflicts between the two Human Rights (IPRs and Right to Health). This can be done through existing mechanisms (such as the "compulsory licensing", although it is still very difficult to implement, as in Rwanda/Canada case); or through new mechanisms that can be set up, such as a "quota system" (as Siew Kuan mentions in the reading) which evaluates on a case-by-case basis the the fair balance between legitimate rights of patent holders and the public health interests. An example of disproportionality and abuse of patents and IPRs is precisely the example of Novartis' Glivec case in India. In addition to the professor's podcast, you can find more information at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/01/novartis-denied-cancer-drug-patent-india .
In this specific case, the clear (at least, in my opinion) disproportion of application of IPR protection is based on two issues:
   a) The so-called "ever-greening patents" (it is actually the main argument of India Supreme Court)
   b) The cost of this important cancer drug is 175 USD (generic version), but due to the patent, the cost rises up to 2.600 USD!!

Finally, to answer professor's question: Yes, all human beings have a human right to benefit from scientific progress (but the human right to protect intellectual property as well). Art. 15 of the ICESCR (International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights) says that:

The States Parties to the present Covenant recognize the right of everyone:

    a) To take part in cultural life;

    b) To enjoy the benefits of scientific progress and its applications;

    c) To benefit from the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.

In reply to Mihir Kanade

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by Deleted user -
All we know that the ultimate purpose of any company is to obtain and subsequent profit-maximisation. In this case we find that a patent of a company can help in the fight against child malnutrition in underdeveloped countries. Nobody with a gram of heart would refuse to unlock the patent to help save these lives; however, this case does not impinge on the real problems which are causing death and malnutrition . All we know that the surpluses of wheat and cereals in the United States are sent to Africa , however in recent years there has been a dramatic rise in price due to the rise of biofuels that use agricultural products for its preparation, this has produced the surpluses are minors and therefore the aid they received the underdeveloped countries has been drastically reduced. In conclusion I would like to make a defense of private property as a fundamental basis of the rule of law.. It is crucial to understand that the companies research and invest your money to create products that will generate benefits ; you must be very careful when it comes to require or compel companies transfer of patents or products for free, because no law obliges them to do so, separate issue is morality, but morality is not relative to the law, since there are many issues that are legal but of dubious morality or null.
In reply to Mihir Kanade

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by Mihir Kanade -

Great points Francisco, Wafa, Aram and Jose. In summarizing your points I would like to highlight the legal provision in the ICESCR Art. 15 that Aram mentioned. While it is the right of the innovators "To benefit from the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author", it is also the right of everyone to enjoy the benefits of scientific progress and its applications". Obviously, the solution as well as the challenge, is to strike the balance between the two. While Jose is right in terms of cautioning against deincentivising companies by diluting patent protection, Francisco, Aram and Wafa are also right that economic profits must not come at the cost of human lives.

In fact, the exceptions in TRIPS Agreement were made precisely because there was an agreement amongst States that public health should not be a casualty of the IPR regime. The attempt to figure out some sort of a happy balance is, unfortunately, not easy at all.

I would like to provoke you further for critical reflection. Art. 15 of the ICESCR talks about inventors benefitting from moral and material interests resulting from their inventions. However, it does not lay down the scope of how such benefits must accrue. That is done by the IPR regime that lays down criteria such as exclusion of competitors to produce the patented product for 20 years. One could argue, therefore, that the TRIPS regime is a lex specialis and by breaking the balance required, it is in conflict with human rights regime that requires not only that balance to be maintained, but also requires access to medicines as a human right obligation on States as well. As students of International Law, a very important question in this regards is as follows:

Does human rights law trump IPR law? In other words, if obligations of States under human rights law are breached because of IPR obligations, should the conflicting IPR obligations be superseded by the former?